Post by musclebones on Nov 30, 2018 11:42:29 GMT -5
slow day at work today ladies and gents, gonna ramble about some common debate topics over the last few years, apologies for the unstructured nature of this post, I wanted to structure it but I am too lazy
The idea of claiming moves and the controversy surrounding it has been ever present and it's a problem that the begs community has to face from a unique perspective. In general, due to the small nature of the community, and the many different predisposed perspectives a lot of us bring to the table, can each cause these opposed opinions.
I'll start with this: source communities. communities have values that are somehow or another adopted en masse and rarely questioned, and the community that I founded my values in is skateboarding. This community has been around for decades now and has had the time to develop terminology and a sort of method for claims. The rapid development of most of the trick repertoire by the goat Rodney Mullen allowed the gold rush of new tricks to be largely limited in the modern skateboarding world. Generally speaking, you do not claim tricks as your own, as it is seen that the tricks are an open source pool that anyone can pick and choose from. It is assumed from the moment you begin skateboarding that 99% of what you learn has been discovered by someone else, and that person has no intellectual ownership over the idea. You are then able to express yourself by taking these puzzle pieces and assembling them into unique combos and lines, or in unique locations or applications. That is how you individualize yourself. Trick choice and location is what makes your tricks unique.
If you do the same trick or line as someone else, but in a different spot, few eyebrows will be raised. If you do the same trick in the same spot, many eyebrows will be raised. A modern example of this is the case of the former pro skater Ali Boulala and the modern pro skater Jaws. Ali was involved in a motorcycle accident about 10 years ago (~2008, not totally sure) and was in a coma for nearly a year, ending his career. A few years prior to this accident, he attempted the largest "drop" of all time: an ollie melon grab over a massive set of stairs in Lyon, France, known as the Lyon 25. The impact of landing on the board after such a drop continually shattered Ali's skateboard. The wood deck ripped apart, the wheels and bearings exploded upon impact, etc - he failed to slay the dragon because his sword was not strong enough. If it was, he would have landed and rolled away.
This trick at this spot was seen as Ali's unfinished business. Fast forward to 2016. The new king of huge drops, Jaws, decides to invite Ali to watch as he attempts the same trick at the same spot. and whadaya know? Jaws does it. After many attempts, he landed the ollie melon grab down the Lyon 25. Many skaters celebrated this feat, as the fabled dragon had been slain, but many others thought it was a clear cut case of taking something owe
Long story short, it is very rare that skateboarders see moves as their own. It is only in extremely specific conditions that these things are "owned."
Let's look at another source community: cardistry. Many begglers come from cardistry, which more or less comes from magic. So the source community even deeper is magic, but we'll focus on cardistry since I know that one better. This community is thoroughly entrenched in the idea of ownership of moves, concepts, mechanics, etc. They work hard to creature fully unique moves, and fiercely defend their ideas as their own, since for the most part, they are. A deck of cards can have many moving parts, and cardistry in general is so much more abstract than your typical forms of manipulation, so it is entirely possible to have dozens of unique moves. Look at any number of posts on instagram in cardistry of people claiming new moves, and you will find a heated debate in the comments articulating just how unoriginal it is.
The issue then arises when a new community is born, and people bring their source community's values with them. This causes the trouble of claiming tricks. "It's just a variation, bro," "that's not a move it's just a combo," etc etc, these ideas are based on our informed values due to source communities.
I have been notoriously and purposefully obtuse about claiming any moves as my own, and I will use an example here: the backhand. I will never outright claim that I found the backhand, but in some contexts you can say I helped bring the move into the begleri repertoire. Here is my logic behind this: I initially stumbled onto the move when I was out on a walk on a nice summer day, trying to replicate a move from memory that I had seen Nina (@np_begleri) do. My memory was a bit fuzzy, all I knew was she tossed the set over the back of her hand somehow, and caught with palm down. I found then that I could toss from 12 over the thumb and catch in 34. It was sloppy. I posted a few clips of this on snapchat, where Sammy (@svn.cbg) then took the concept and showed that it can be linked repeatedly, and that it can be thrown and caught from different grips. Later then Mason (@i.mapo) set a chain backhand record that is, to this day, still untouched. Do you see what I'm getting at here? It would be pompous and disingenuous to claim that I had any more significant of an impact on the chain of events that caused the backhand to be the move we all know today. I find that in many instances, save for extremely unique moves like the mic drop and grapevine, this collective effort is more or less the reality. Therefore I do not support claiming moves, both from a logical and value-informed approach.
There also is the case of parallel thought. I have personally come across several moves that others have claimed as their own, in some form or another, before any of it was shown. Other slingers have as well. This leads to the troubling circumstance of saying "hey, I did this move before you," followed by... zero evidence. It is only an issue when the pride or ego of the slinger doesn't allow it to slip. This pride and ego appears to be fueled by, you guessed it, source community bias.
This pride and/or ego seems to be rooted in the claim of the tricking being used to give the slinger a name for themselves. They get to cement themselves as a part of begleri history and blow everyone's minds. This is an understandably desirable thing to do. The unfortunate truth, however, is that many times top players will essentially hide material until they unveil it at the desired time. This also is a damaging practice to the advancement of begleri and the growth of the community.
The moral of the story? It's a net negative mentality to have tricks or moves be seen as anything other than a collective open source pool to be played with and added to as often as possible.
The idea of claiming moves and the controversy surrounding it has been ever present and it's a problem that the begs community has to face from a unique perspective. In general, due to the small nature of the community, and the many different predisposed perspectives a lot of us bring to the table, can each cause these opposed opinions.
I'll start with this: source communities. communities have values that are somehow or another adopted en masse and rarely questioned, and the community that I founded my values in is skateboarding. This community has been around for decades now and has had the time to develop terminology and a sort of method for claims. The rapid development of most of the trick repertoire by the goat Rodney Mullen allowed the gold rush of new tricks to be largely limited in the modern skateboarding world. Generally speaking, you do not claim tricks as your own, as it is seen that the tricks are an open source pool that anyone can pick and choose from. It is assumed from the moment you begin skateboarding that 99% of what you learn has been discovered by someone else, and that person has no intellectual ownership over the idea. You are then able to express yourself by taking these puzzle pieces and assembling them into unique combos and lines, or in unique locations or applications. That is how you individualize yourself. Trick choice and location is what makes your tricks unique.
If you do the same trick or line as someone else, but in a different spot, few eyebrows will be raised. If you do the same trick in the same spot, many eyebrows will be raised. A modern example of this is the case of the former pro skater Ali Boulala and the modern pro skater Jaws. Ali was involved in a motorcycle accident about 10 years ago (~2008, not totally sure) and was in a coma for nearly a year, ending his career. A few years prior to this accident, he attempted the largest "drop" of all time: an ollie melon grab over a massive set of stairs in Lyon, France, known as the Lyon 25. The impact of landing on the board after such a drop continually shattered Ali's skateboard. The wood deck ripped apart, the wheels and bearings exploded upon impact, etc - he failed to slay the dragon because his sword was not strong enough. If it was, he would have landed and rolled away.
This trick at this spot was seen as Ali's unfinished business. Fast forward to 2016. The new king of huge drops, Jaws, decides to invite Ali to watch as he attempts the same trick at the same spot. and whadaya know? Jaws does it. After many attempts, he landed the ollie melon grab down the Lyon 25. Many skaters celebrated this feat, as the fabled dragon had been slain, but many others thought it was a clear cut case of taking something owe
Long story short, it is very rare that skateboarders see moves as their own. It is only in extremely specific conditions that these things are "owned."
Let's look at another source community: cardistry. Many begglers come from cardistry, which more or less comes from magic. So the source community even deeper is magic, but we'll focus on cardistry since I know that one better. This community is thoroughly entrenched in the idea of ownership of moves, concepts, mechanics, etc. They work hard to creature fully unique moves, and fiercely defend their ideas as their own, since for the most part, they are. A deck of cards can have many moving parts, and cardistry in general is so much more abstract than your typical forms of manipulation, so it is entirely possible to have dozens of unique moves. Look at any number of posts on instagram in cardistry of people claiming new moves, and you will find a heated debate in the comments articulating just how unoriginal it is.
The issue then arises when a new community is born, and people bring their source community's values with them. This causes the trouble of claiming tricks. "It's just a variation, bro," "that's not a move it's just a combo," etc etc, these ideas are based on our informed values due to source communities.
I have been notoriously and purposefully obtuse about claiming any moves as my own, and I will use an example here: the backhand. I will never outright claim that I found the backhand, but in some contexts you can say I helped bring the move into the begleri repertoire. Here is my logic behind this: I initially stumbled onto the move when I was out on a walk on a nice summer day, trying to replicate a move from memory that I had seen Nina (@np_begleri) do. My memory was a bit fuzzy, all I knew was she tossed the set over the back of her hand somehow, and caught with palm down. I found then that I could toss from 12 over the thumb and catch in 34. It was sloppy. I posted a few clips of this on snapchat, where Sammy (@svn.cbg) then took the concept and showed that it can be linked repeatedly, and that it can be thrown and caught from different grips. Later then Mason (@i.mapo) set a chain backhand record that is, to this day, still untouched. Do you see what I'm getting at here? It would be pompous and disingenuous to claim that I had any more significant of an impact on the chain of events that caused the backhand to be the move we all know today. I find that in many instances, save for extremely unique moves like the mic drop and grapevine, this collective effort is more or less the reality. Therefore I do not support claiming moves, both from a logical and value-informed approach.
There also is the case of parallel thought. I have personally come across several moves that others have claimed as their own, in some form or another, before any of it was shown. Other slingers have as well. This leads to the troubling circumstance of saying "hey, I did this move before you," followed by... zero evidence. It is only an issue when the pride or ego of the slinger doesn't allow it to slip. This pride and ego appears to be fueled by, you guessed it, source community bias.
This pride and/or ego seems to be rooted in the claim of the tricking being used to give the slinger a name for themselves. They get to cement themselves as a part of begleri history and blow everyone's minds. This is an understandably desirable thing to do. The unfortunate truth, however, is that many times top players will essentially hide material until they unveil it at the desired time. This also is a damaging practice to the advancement of begleri and the growth of the community.
The moral of the story? It's a net negative mentality to have tricks or moves be seen as anything other than a collective open source pool to be played with and added to as often as possible.
